john mccain motoring with george w. bush at a maine country club in a golf cart. these kinds of pictures i think started from these two people who really understood language and the narrative, you could see these happening all the time throughout the campaign. i think it really helps form, pictures, images for people in their minds. >> being a lover of campaign, how would you differentiate campaign trail from a propaganda machine, just saying what you have to get the guy to win. >> louder, campaign trail from? >> differentiate from campaign trail to the propaganda machine saying what you have to get the candidate to win, campaign trail to the propaganda machine. >> well, i don't, i don't think people, frankly i don't think voters go for propaganda machines. maybe they did at one time, i don't know. you see this, i mean you see this all the time. people want an ought thentic candidate. i think today's candidate, this is i guess i was frustrated about trying to start my own practice, i thought people were just running tactics right? not even a propaganda machine but